Krugman: U.S. Needs Death Panels, Sales Taxes.

[RiotGrip]

the trillion dollar stimulus plan

Is your contention that the economy would be better now if the trillion dollar stimulus had not been implemented? If so please explain, and I'd really be curious to see the writings of an economist that back up your claims.

[I invented that]

Is your contention that the economy would be better now if the trillion dollar stimulus had not been implemented? If so please explain, and I'd really be curious to see the writings of an economist that back up your claims.

can you prove it helped?

[Goo For You]

So you concede everything wrt the Great Depression? Austerity causing it, etc.

If not, try answering my questions in the right context.

[I invented that]

So you concede everything wrt the Great Depression? Austerity causing it, etc.

If not, try answering my questions in the right context.

what is your question, it seems to keep evolving?

[Goo For You]

can you prove it helped?

1) You make a claim about economics or economic policy.
2) You are called to produce evidence or the reasoning behind your claim.
3) You can come up with nothing.
4) You are cornered, and your only move is to say "economists can't prove the opposite to my satisfaction, neener neener."

This started out fun, but has turned into a tragedy.




EDIT: Here are two hints. First, if your own view of economics implies that something is knowable about the workings of the economy, you can't defend your points by claiming "economists can't prove anything". Second, if you want to claim that nothing is knowable about the workings of the economy, then you should just say so, and come up with a better reasoning for it than "economists can't prove x to my liking, neener neener".

[Goo For You]

what is your question, it seems to keep evolving?

I made a claim about austerity and tight money causing the Great Depression. You replied by asking "by tight money do you mean the artificially low interest rates?" I'm still waiting for an answer to why you think rates were "artificially low" back then.

[I invented that]

I made a claim about austerity and tight money causing the Great Depression. You replied by asking "by tight money do you mean the artificially low interest rates?" I'm still waiting for an answer to why you think rates were "artificially low" back then.

i don't think there is a proven definitive cause of the great depression.
http://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/whemon92.pdf

[I invented that]

I made a claim about austerity and tight money causing the Great Depression. You replied by asking "by tight money do you mean the artificially low interest rates?" I'm still waiting for an answer to why you think rates were "artificially low" back then.

i was talking about today.

[Goo For You]

i don't think there is a proven definitive cause of the great depression.
http://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/meltzer/whemon92.pdf

Here are two hints. First, if your own view of economics implies that something is knowable about the workings of the economy, you can't defend your points by claiming "economists can't prove anything". Second, if you want to claim that nothing is knowable about the workings of the economy, then you should just say so, and come up with a better reasoning for it than "economists can't prove x to my liking, neener neener".

Define "prove definitively" in the context of economics. What type of an argument can we make to stop you from pulling the "neener neener" move?

i was talking about today.

No shit, Sherlock.

[I invented that]

i never said economics was bull shit i said the differing theories are unprovable. if they were provable there would only be one school of thought.

[Goo For You]

Ok so you have nothing on the Great Depression. That's kind of an important event to understand when discussing today's events.

Nevertheless, let's move on:

The Federal Reserve took extraordinary actions in response to the financial crisis to help stabilize the U.S. economy and financial system. These actions included reducing the level of short-term interest rates to near zero. In addition, to reduce longer-term interest rates and thus provide further support for the U.S. economy, the Federal Reserve has purchased large quantities of longer-term Treasury securities and longer-term securities issued or guaranteed by government-sponsored agencies such as Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.

In the absence of these policy moves, what would the interest rate be and why? Would we be experiencing inflation or deflation? How would that inflation or deflation affect the economy? Show all work.

[Goo For You]

i never said economics was bull shit i said the differing theories are unprovable. if they were provable there would only be one school of thought.

Yes, you are continuously saying theories you disagree with are unprovable. Is that your only criterion?


EDIT: Explain the process you use to decide which theories are unprovable.

[stripes]

If you want to learn to understand what he's saying, you're always welcome here.

gee willercas, really, ya gonna teech me sum learnin, iz ya? relax, i got it buckwheat, know all i need about that bookseller.
it aint rocket science know matter how much you try to make it.

[Goo For You]

gee willercas, really, ya gonna teech me sum learnin, iz ya? relax, i got it buckwheat, know all i need about that bookseller.
it aint rocket science know matter how much you try to make it.

Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Soon enough, you'll be impressing your friends with this stuff.

That's how it has gone since the beginning of Internet message boards, and that's how it is likely to go far into the future.

[I invented that]

Yes, you are continuously saying theories you disagree with are unprovable. Is that your only criterion?


EDIT: Explain the process you use to decide which theories are unprovable.

you can't prove that implementing the stimulus plan helped the economy because you don't have a control economy to compare the results with.

[I invented that]

Ok so you have nothing on the Great Depression. That's kind of an important event to understand when discussing today's events.

Nevertheless, let's move on:



In the absence of these policy moves, what would the interest rate be and why? Would we be experiencing inflation or deflation? How would that inflation or deflation affect the economy? Show all work.

the interest rates would be higher, the government is keeping them artificially low because it benefits the government.

[Goo For You]

you can't prove that implementing the stimulus plan helped the economy because you don't have a control economy to compare the results with.

Ok, just for the sake of argument, let's assume that can't be proved. There's still a good chance it could have helped, right?

Explain how you conclude from this that it should not have been implemented.

What's the worst thing you think a failed fiscal stimulus causes?

If you're going to say inflation, explain the current very low rate of inflation, and the very low inflation expectations of the market for the next 10-30 years.

In your analysis, do you give any weight to the possibility that the stimulus might actually work, even though it is "unproven"?

[Goo For You]

In the absence of these policy moves, what would the interest rate be and why? Would we be experiencing inflation or deflation? How would that inflation or deflation affect the economy? Show all work.

the interest rates would be higher, the government is keeping them artificially low because it benefits the government.

Answer the last two questions as well. If you're not certain, give us your best guess.



EDIT: This is really the crux of the matter.

[I invented that]

Ok, just for the sake of argument, let's assume that can't be proved. There's still a good chance it could have helped, right?

Explain how you conclude from this that it should not have been implemented.

What's the worst thing you think a failed fiscal stimulus causes?

If you're going to say inflation, explain the current very low rate of inflation, and the very low inflation expectations of the market for the next 10-30 years.

In your analysis, do you give any weight to the possibility that the stimulus might actually work, even though it is "unproven"?

we may as well be discussing theology

[I invented that]

you like to lay out your numbers on the table like so many tea leaves, then try to predict the future.