Should we give up on the Constitution?

**Goo For You** · 02-04-2013, 01:03 PM

After writing a provocative piece for NYT, this guy Seidman (a constitutional law professor) got grilled by Russ Roberts (a staunch but extremely fair Republican from the Hoover Institution) on today's EconTalk. And what an amazing discussion it was!

Before commenting, Republicans may want to do a full set of push-ups, punch a wall, and think about the following phrase from the article:

"What would change is not the existence of these institutions, but the basis on which they claim legitimacy."

**TelegramSam** · 02-04-2013, 01:08 PM

It's been going this way for years. Activist judges are making the constitution worthless, there's little we can do about it except elect presidents and local/state judges who believe in a stricter adherence to it. I'm basically of the opinion that we're on the decline, there's not a lot you can do about it unless you have John Malone money, so just sit back and enjoy the ride as the country goes down.

**MatthewT** · 02-04-2013, 01:36 PM

yeah, at this point, it might be a distinction without a difference; the constitution, the bill of rights, the idea of a limited, small government contained so that it cannot spread evil; these things may have been lost

**Metta World Peace** · 02-04-2013, 01:38 PM

Constitutional monarchy, motherfuckers.

**MatthewT** · 02-04-2013, 01:39 PM

well, we were a constitutional republic, but now we're headed towards mob democracy

**MatthewT** · 02-04-2013, 01:39 PM

but we told England to fuck off a long time ago

**Bosch76** · 02-04-2013, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

yeah, at this point, it might be a distinction without a difference; the constitution, the bill of rights, the idea of a limited, small government contained so that it cannot spread evil; these things may have been lost

Which ones?

**MatthewT** · 02-04-2013, 03:18 PM

the most obvious seems to be the idea of containing government, a necessary evil, by giving it only limited powers, and making sure it can't devolve into a dictatorship with concentrated executive power

it's the main goal of the founding fathers, who were much wiser about this than we are.

**Bosch76** · 02-04-2013, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

the most obvious seems to be the idea of containing government, a necessary evil, by giving it only limited powers, and making sure it can't devolve into a dictatorship with concentrated executive power

it's the main goal of the founding fathers, who were much wiser about this than we are.

Which Bill of Right power is that?

I have never seen the "may not devolve into a dictatorship" clause.

**HeinousMark** · 02-04-2013, 06:12 PM

I'd like to go back to the original Constitution and Bill Of Rights, with very few changes. The Electoral College is out-of-date as an outhouse, though. Odd that some people fear a monarchy; it's fascism I worry about, I mean it's pretty much here and now. Corporations have run this country for years now, with bought and paid for politicians.

**HeinousMark** · 02-04-2013, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bosch76

Which Bill of Right power is that?

I have never seen the "may not devolve into a dictatorship" clause.

I'm by no means taking Mattieu's side, but there's some wording about "We The People" and especially "Of THE PEOPLE, by THE PEOPLE, and for THE PEOPLE" that seems pretty straightforward to me

**Bosch76** · 02-04-2013, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by HeinousMark

I'm by no means taking Mattieu's side, but there's some wording about "We The People" and especially "Of THE PEOPLE, by THE PEOPLE, and for THE PEOPLE" that seems pretty straightforward to me

his implication is that Obama is a dictator which is fucking retarded.

**HeinousMark** · 02-04-2013, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bosch76

his implication is that Obama is a dictator which is fucking retarded.

Oh I agree completely. Rightards are masters at turning things around backwards and denial.

**MatthewT** · 02-05-2013, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bosch76

Which Bill of Right power is that?

I have never seen the "may not devolve into a dictatorship" clause.

you might want to sue your civics teacher

**MatthewT** · 02-05-2013, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Bosch76

his implication is that Obama is a dictator which is fucking retarded.

okay, let me spell it out for you then. more czars than all other presidents. got bitch slapped for his "recess" appointments by the judiciary (one of the other two branches of government; remember those?). got bitch slapped for his offshore moriatorium. has made more ridiculous executive orders than any other president (he actually gave himself an executive order to appoint someone to the executive branch [one of three branches of our government; remember checks and balances?])

has actually said he wishes he was a dictator, 'cause that would make things easier for him.

has actually said he will go it alone if the congress does not give him what he wants.

you paid zero attention in civics class; maybe start paying some attention to this lame duck president and his actual stated goals (fundamental transformation of a constitutional republic into, what, obamaland?)

**SiriusDawg** · 02-05-2013, 09:33 AM

Most if not all Constitution talk today from Republicans is a joke.

Some are too stupid to read it, some are too stupid to understand it, and the rest simply ignore it when it says something or means something that they dislike.

Hearing so many of them wanting a STRICT interpretation there but not here....or vice-versa is rather comical.

**MatthewT** · 02-05-2013, 10:14 AM

example?

**SiriusDawg** · 02-05-2013, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

example?

1) We want religious freedom for EVERYONE! Oh, you aren't Christian? Then no, you can't really build your center there...too close to the World Trade Center! But a Christian loses a shoe in Libya? OMG OMG OMG CHRISTIAN ARE BEING PERSECUTED!!!!!!!!!!!!

2) The Constitution allows the President to do what he needs to KEEP US SAFE! Oh wait, well no, we NOW have Checks & Balances

3) Listen, everyone needs to understand that Citizens United is the law of the land now. Don't like it? Tough Shit. The Supreme Court decided it! But Roe v. Wade? Well no, that was just a mistake. That can be gotten around by just...uh...ignoring it.

4) The Constitution states "Equal Protection"....but gays? Forget it

5) Judicial Activism is KILLING AMERICA. KILLING US LITERALLY! Oh, but if our Judges break new ground? It is us moving forward as a country. Makes sense, right?

6) By the way, have I talked about the numerous bills offered up by right-wing states that make a mockery of the Constitution? Or do we just pretend these bills never existed? Link Link Link Link Link

**Bosch76** · 02-05-2013, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by MatthewT

has actually said he wishes he was a dictator, 'cause that would make things easier for him.

I won't deal with the rest of your bullshit, but this one I must.

ASSHOLE.....

GEORGE BUSH FUCKING SAID THIS.

"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier." Describing what it's like to be governor of Texas.
(Governing Magazine 7/98)

-- From Paul Begala's "Is Our Children Learning?"

"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator," Bush joked.

-- CNN.com, December 18, 2000

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it, " [Bush] said.

-- Business Week, July 30, 2001

YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!