Howard 9 Months Before He Proposed To Beth...

[Howard103]

I remember during the time period when Howard and the crew were discussing this aspect a lot, Howard mentioned that one day Beth wanted to see his penis. Robin asked why, and Howard stumbled all over the place before saying "I don't know, she just wanted to see it." I always thought this somehow had to do with Howard talking about getting snipped. Her maybe grabbing it and saying don't. He did say that Beth said that she would be upset if he ever got snipped.

Why, since back then she was claiming she didn't want a baby?!

Dr. Ablow kept bringing up the condom issue, but he didn't get to the heart of what the trust issue really is. He kept talking about a fear of intimacy. How could he not see and address what's really going on? A man who knows his wife artist is such a con artist, that he doesn't even trust her to use birth control.

And Howard is smarter for it too.

lol... "wife artist"...

[IlluminatiJones]

And the whole "Doorman" thing was bullshit. Beth had gotten as deep into the Hamptons ladies who lunch circuit as she could as a GF and needed the ring to get in with the "A" crowd of wives.

i don't think so. she's more of a "gold-digger crowd" type. see: her best friend

it was never about the doorman's respect.................it was about her being able to disrespect the doorman, which she couldn't fully do as a mere girlfriend

in every lie is a warped grain of truth

[Willowglen]

i don't think so. she's more of a "gold-digger crowd" type. see: her best friend

it was never about the doorman's respect.................it was about her being able to disrespect the doorman, which she couldn't fully do as a mere girlfriend

in every lie is a warped grain of truth

You would be wrong. Beth doesn't give two shits about the doorman. Its always been about her acceptabilty and respect from the Hampton's crowd. The rich guys out there go thru GF's by the dozens. As A GF she was just another blonde airhead some rich guy with a nice house was fucking. She had gone as deep as she could go without the ring. If want to be accepted into the Summers Farkas wives club you need to be a wife.

[Famous]

No, I think that Illuminati Jones is right. I think you're underestimating how juvenile Beth is, Willow.

I think that this is exactly right:

it was about her being able to disrespect the doorman

I've thought about this before, and that's the only way the doorman thing makes sense. She probably tried to boss him around, and he probably gave her 'tude like "bitch, you don't even really live here." That infuriated Beth.

I also think that the doorman was both a literal figure, and a stand-in figure, representative of Howard's daughters. They didn't respect her at all, and Howard's thinking was that if he made her his wife, somehow that would make it more definitive for the girls. They showed him, by not even showing up to the wedding, I suspect. I believe that this is why he had two separate weddings. Everyone would have noticed if his girls weren't there, if they did just one wedding. So he had to have two, because he knew the two oldest ones would never show up to the wedding. This is also why he never talks about the private wedding. He doesn't want his daughters to come up.

I also believe that the marriage was largely about money (obviously). Beth's parents taught her well, and I think that they were absolutely in her ear about finances. Even things like estate taxes. As the wife, there would be no taxes on what she inherited from Howard's estate. As the girlfriend? Taxes galore. This is a point that Howard, ever obsessed with money, took into consideration too. He's said many times that he wanted to make sure that Beth was "protected." This was also a shot at his daughters, by the way, because he said family sometimes gets funny about money (i.e. they would have done what they could to try to shut that chick out...A will be damned).

I wonder what their prenup negotiations were like.

[IlluminatiJones]

No, I think that Illuminati Jones is right. I think you're underestimating how juvenile Beth is, Willow.

which is a really strange thing to underestimate! at no point.....................ever.................... .....has she shown any semblance of maturity.

"YOU KNOW WHAT?!?!? I THINK I WANT TO THROW OUT THE DOGGIE-FOOTBALL IN THE FIRST DOGGIE-SUPERBOWL!!!"

"I LOVE ANIMOES!!!"

and this is shit she's said WITHIN THE LAST YEAR!!!

Now go back a dozen years and tell me it's not possible she wanted to get married so she could stick it to the doorman, the delivery boy, and all the "snooty" sales girls she ever came across.

I think that this is exactly right:

it was about her being able to disrespect the doorman

I've thought about this before, and that's the only way the doorman thing makes sense. She probably tried to boss him around, and he probably gave her 'tude like "bitch, you don't even really live here." That infuriated Beth.

Thank you for getting it, Famous.

But I don't think she even needed something that obvious to feel the desire to put him down.

She's probably slinked out of enough apartment buildings in the wee hours.................during her "modeling" days...........................looking a bit worse for wear to make them pay....................MAKE THEM ALL PAY!!!

So in addition to your stand-in figure theory below, I'll throw in that "the doorman" is also a composite of all the doormen she's ever had to shamefully walk past.

Here's something that perfectly fits in with all this talk:

Early on in their relationship Howard threw some kind of party at some half-assed club. It was during operating hours so it was in a roped-off section or separate room of the club.

So there was a guest-list at the door and Howard "bragged" on the air that Beth got "turned on by".........................or perhaps it was "got off on", but it was definitely one of the two....................being able to turn people away from their VIP party. He made it sound like she was right there at the door checking names and asking for ids.

First it was about the $$$, then it was about the power, and part of the power is respect.

And respect is always a double-edged sword: it is given and withheld, and there is no way an infantile spoiled brat like Veruca Salt Beth wouldn't "get off on" the ability to disrespect those "beneath" her.

Hell, we've SEEN it..................on the show where she let out that beautiful first quote.....................with her assistant.

I also think that the doorman was both a literal figure, and a stand-in figure, representative of Howard's daughters. They didn't respect her at all, and Howard's thinking was that if he made her his wife, somehow that would make it more definitive for the girls. They showed him, by not even showing up to the wedding, I suspect. I believe that this is why he had two separate weddings. Everyone would have noticed if his girls weren't there, if they did just one wedding. So he had to have two, because he knew the two oldest ones would never show up to the wedding. This is also why he never talks about the private wedding. He doesn't want his daughters to come up.

I also believe that the marriage was largely about money (obviously). Beth's parents taught her well, and I think that they were absolutely in her ear about finances. Even things like estate taxes. As the wife, there would be no taxes on what she inherited from Howard's estate. As the girlfriend? Taxes galore. This is a point that Howard, ever obsessed with money, took into consideration too. He's said many times that he wanted to make sure that Beth was "protected." This was also a shot at his daughters, by the way, because he said family sometimes gets funny about money (i.e. they would have done what they could to try to shut that chick out...A will be damned).

I'm with all this. Well done!

I wonder what their prenup negotiations were like.

quite the tenses

You internet-complete me.