I just realized the biggest flaw in Howard's attacks on Jackie...

[The Snork]

In fact a few years before this all went down didn't Howard predict that Jackie wouldn't be with them on the next contract ... and that Nancy would divorce him?

[The Snork]

Jackie was overpaid. Never in my life have I heard of a guy who's only talent was making one and only other particular guy funny. If you're funny and talent you are funny and talented no matter where you go.

[ShutupMoron]

Clearly the end result of the Jackie negotiations is that Jackie did not "win." But neither did Howard. Or KROQ. Or the fans. Because the powers that be decided that it was better to destroy the product - the HSS - than to pay for it.

Less cost. But worse product.

I agree with you on those points.

[whatsit]

Jackie is incapable of having his own radio show that would generate the kind of money that the old HSS generated. That's not in dispute.

It's also not the issue. The issue is that when Jackie substantially contributes to a show generating the kind of money that the old HSS generated, he should receive a slice of the pie. And his employers should negotiate with him in good faith, not tell him that he will take the pittance they're offering - relatively speaking - or he will go home.

Clearly the end result of the Jackie negotiations is that Jackie did not "win." But neither did Howard. Or KROQ. Or the fans. Because the powers that be decided that it was better to destroy the product - the HSS - than to pay for it.

Less cost. But worse product.

good post

[TelegramSam]

You have to wonder what is going through the poor bastard's mind as he sits there. It is sad and pathetic to see this picture. Jackie was his own worst enemy and will go down in history as pulling the most ill-advised negotiating tactic EVER. He just should been content to suck the wind out of Howard's asshole for a million plus a year salary and be done with it. But no, he fucked himself out of the gig and he gets to do Jackie's Joke Hunt instead. Way to go Jackie. Brainiac.

I have to take issue with that a little bit. I have a little bit of a conspiracy theory about this, in that we have no idea what time of day Wolfie went by, and we weren't shown any of the tables nearby Jackie. I used to go to a lot of guitar/rock music conventions where people sell a lot of vintage gear (effects pedals, old amps, etc) at good prices, and you would be surprised at people who are at a booth with no visitors. I was able to have a conversation with a couple of the guys from the Killing Joke and none of the teenagers who were there could have cared slightly while they were sitting around with piles of CDs. I even walked around the floor and ran into Peter Murphy (from Bauhaus) and he told me I was the first person who recognized him all day! Also, Jackie picked a bad convention to go to. A hefty percentage of the kids at Comic Con weren't even alive in the 80's, and a lot of the ones that were are dumb enough to stand in line for hours and pay $150 to meet William Shatner. I have no doubt that had that camera done a full pan, there would have been loads of empty tables. Don't just swallow everything the Wig spoon feeds you. I hope Jackie does read this board sometime, if only to know that a lot of us fans are still on Team Jokeman.

[whatsit]

I have to take issue with that a little bit. I have a little bit of a conspiracy theory about this, in that we have no idea what time of day Wolfie went by, and we weren't shown any of the tables nearby Jackie. I used to go to a lot of guitar/rock music conventions where people sell a lot of vintage gear (effects pedals, old amps, etc) at good prices, and you would be surprised at people who are at a booth with no visitors. I was able to have a conversation with a couple of the guys from the Killing Joke and none of the teenagers who were there could have cared slightly while they were sitting around with piles of CDs. I even walked around the floor and ran into Peter Murphy (from Bauhaus) and he told me I was the first person who recognized him all day! Also, Jackie picked a bad convention to go to. A hefty percentage of the kids at Comic Con weren't even alive in the 80's, and a lot of the ones that were are dumb enough to stand in line for hours and pay $150 to meet William Shatner. I have no doubt that had that camera done a full pan, there would have been loads of empty tables. Don't just swallow everything the Wig spoon feeds you. I hope Jackie does read this board sometime, if only to know that a lot of us fans are still on Team Jokeman.

He will never read a post that ^ long. Just sayin.

[Greekfreak]

So the error in Jackie's negotiation strategy was that he didn't unionize before striking?

Trouble is, Jackie could not unionize because his co-workers wouldn't play. Your own post acknowledges this.

So again, if not striking solo, what is the negotiating option that Jackie had that would have been successful?

There really was no other option for him. Robin had admitted in that show announcing his departure that in Jackie's last few years with the show when he would do his typical walk-offs for more money, she actively campaigned for Howard to let him go (which also proves what many have always thought--that Howard hires and fires, NOT K-Roc management or Sirius, and that his is/was the final say), which he eventually did. Howard could not have effectively replaced her then, and she would have been instrumental for leveraging Wiggy to get more money.

[Greekfreak]

So you believe that Jackie should have taken what KROQ (Howard) offered and not bothered negotiating for more?

I understand this argument, because given a choice between $0 and $1 million, or whatever the last offer to Jackie was, $1 million is a helluva lot more money. But in essence being told to take what KROQ was offering and to like it - when Jackie's contribution was so substantial, when the money generated by the show was so tremendous, and when Howard's pay was so exponentially higher than Jackie's - was bullshit. That is not a good faith negotiation.

Just after Howard signed with Sirius, he declared that he was finally going to be paid what he was worth. And while we don't know for sure, it's a safe bet that Howard would not have allowed an equally substantial pay bump for Jackie had Jackie still been around.

So...$80 million per year for Howard (after paying show costs, and excluding hundreds of millions of dollars in bonus money) but $1 million per year for Jackie? BULLSHIT.

I don't remember the exact fees discussed, but I'm pretty sure that all of the on-air talent (I know, that's a stretch at this point) got a hefty bump when they went to Sirius, probably in the region of 50% more than what they were making at K-Roc.

Artie said he made 1.2 million that last year, but it included gigs. He said his salary was in the region of 400,000 a year, which really was chicken feed considering all he provided the show with. People had Robin getting something like $10 million a year in the K-Roc days, and they're probably not far off. I'd say she got an ungodly raise at Sirius without ever having to really earn it, and this would have made Jackie nuts.

[racerx]

Jackie was overpaid. Never in my life have I heard of a guy who's only talent was making one and only other particular guy funny. If you're funny and talent you are funny and talented no matter where you go.

wrong. jackie didn't deserve howard money. but he did deserve fred and robin money. and he wasn't even asking for that.
yes you have, jackie.
fred robin and howard aren't funny no matter where they go. in fact, they aren't even funny on the stern show anymore.