Carolla rants about you misguided fair share pussies

[stripes]

the relevant thread issue at hand is that hard working white guys over $250k who actually pay more than their fair share by suppling most of the revenue for entitlement programs like the earned income tax credit where alot of this countries citezens get thousands back on their returns & not pay any income tax at all, but the guys >250k are the total shitheads & been demonized by the media darling obama and your argument to this issue is the standard but the bushys & repubs do it also....ya heard that loud & clear for going on 4yrs now...you win.

[stripes]

like carolla said, what kind of topsy turvy bizarro pc world is it when the people paying for all the benefits are the ones demonized & the ones receiving the benefits are complaining that those people paying for all the shitty bloated gubment spending arent paying enough? the wealthy can pay more but demonizing them like the great divider has done over 4 yrs is small time political bullshit & doesnt help this country move forward in a hopey changy sort of way like promised.

[RiotGrip]

yes, thats carollas point & how obama has divided this country up by saying the higher income earners are not paying there fair shair, wtf is that bullshit about? obama started this class warfare with idiots like bosch & mcmurphy screamin like pussies that the rich dont pay taxes or their fare share....dick fucking move from the great divider obama who oh btw was spose to bring everyone together 4 yrs ago.

I think someone in the top bracket going to work and earning income at a level 500,000 to 700,000+ and paying a final rate of 26 to 32%(i.e. a very hard/smart worker/owner, but still in "the rat race") after deductions is paying their fair share under the current tax code. I also think too many people don't pay enough tax in the lower middle and the bottom. This is the greatest country in the world, and the idea that you can get the best while paying the least does not sit well with me. My honest opinion is that Obama should just let all the bush tax cuts expire and then go from there, that would also raise the capital gains tax on people who make tons of money just from investments and the "class warfare/job creator" argument could be dropped. When you look at the numbers, the amount of spending cuts required to get our economy on the right path without touching taxes is staggering, Just taxing "the rich" is not going to do enough to get on the path of real fiscal responsibility while having a government that works for everyone. The idea of getting more from government while paying less (an idea that Bush and Obama seem to covet) has to come to an end.

[stripes]

I think someone in the top bracket going to work and earning income at a level 500,000 to 700,000+ and paying a final rate of 26 to 32%(i.e. a very hard/smart worker/owner, but still in "the rat race") after deductions is paying their fair share under the current tax code. I also think too many people don't pay enough tax in the lower middle and the bottom. This is the greatest country in the world, and the idea that you can get the best while paying the least does not sit well with me. My honest opinion is that Obama should just let all the bush tax cuts expire and then go from there, that would also raise the capital gains tax on people who make tons of money just from investments and the "class warfare/job creator" argument could be dropped. When you look at the numbers, the amount of spending cuts required to get our economy on the right path without touching taxes is staggering, Just taxing "the rich" is not going to do enough to get on the path of real fiscal responsibility while having a government that works for everyone. The idea of getting more from government while paying less (an idea that Bush and Obama seem to covet) has to come to an end.

ya unfortunately like i said in the bill mahr thread, bloomberg reported this morning that raising taxes on the 250k crowd would bring in an extra 58billion in revenue for 2013 against the budget shortfall of 1trillion for the same time frame...the devils in spending & the repubs are to stoopud to get past this nominal tax raise bullshit & get to the hard work of spending cuts & financial order.

[RiotGrip]

ya unfortunately like i said in the bill mahr thread, bloomberg reported this morning that raising taxes on the 250k crowd would bring in an extra 58billion in revenue for 2013 against the budget shortfall of 1trillion for the same time frame...the devils in spending & the repubs are to stoopud to get past this nominal tax raise bullshit & get to the hard work of spending cuts & financial order.

Well I agree, raise them on everyone the rich still do pay most of the tax in this country but there isn't enough revenue to meet the demands of government. The reason that the tax cuts could never be made permanent was because it was very easy to see an exploding deficit after a certain amount of time. You can talk government spending all you want, but the reality is politicians on either side will only vote to cut so much. Currently 66 to 75%+ of government spending comes from Medicare, Social security, and Defense. The rest goes to other stuff, like education, highways, research as well as other entitlements/programs such as welfare. Social security and Medicare do give economic stimulation to the U.S. and they allow us to not have people dying in the streets when they get older(still need to be revised though). Defense money does not have a great stimulative effect on the economy. If you want to even suggest cutting into Social security and medicare, you better cut defense along with it. If we have to suffer to get this economy on track I want equal suffering and a balanced approach.

[stripes]

Well I agree, raise them on everyone the rich still do pay most of the tax in this country but there isn't enough revenue to meet the demands of government. The reason that the tax cuts could never be made permanent was because it was very easy to see an exploding deficit after a certain amount of time. You can talk government spending all you want, but the reality is politicians on either side will only vote to cut so much. Currently 66 to 75%+ of government spending comes from Medicare, Social security, and Defense. The rest goes to other stuff, like education, highways, research as well as other entitlements/programs such as welfare. Social security and Medicare do give economic stimulation to the U.S. and they allow us to not have people dying in the streets when they get older(still need to be revised though). Defense money does not have a great stimulative effect on the economy. If you want to even suggest cutting into Social security and medicare, you better cut defense along with it. If we have to suffer to get this economy on track I want equal suffering and a balanced approach.

i agree with everything you said & there is no will on either side to cut spending, so we'll be greece one day...defense needs to be cut but to say its not a big effect on the economy is crazytalk. think of all the layoffs of troops that now switch to gov. assistance, entire base closing in communities that depend on those bases, think of all the high dollar defense supplier/production jobs that include r&d, engineers etc etc that will have to go. huge national hit that effects unemployment, stock mkt, housing & gnp

[RiotGrip]

i agree with everything you said & there is no will on either side to cut spending, so we'll be greece one day...defense needs to be cut but to say its not a big effect on the economy is crazytalk. think of all the layoffs of troops that now switch to gov. assistance, entire base closing in communities that depend on those bases, think of all the high dollar defense supplier/production jobs that include r&d, engineers etc etc that will have to go. huge national hit that effects unemployment, stock mkt, housing & gnp

I'm not talking immediate troop layoffs. But gradual reduction in troop levels in peacetime, and maybe not offering to allow some to keep reenlisting. less spending on producing and maintaining nukes and other weapons(big money not much in the way of jobs though)keep hi-tech research at an even level. Maybe reducing or eliminating our bases in countries like Japan and Germany. When I said less stimulative, think of the return you get on building a tank or bomb vs a senior citizen(s) spending most of their social security check in their local community.

[racerx]

splain to me how the tax code benefits the wealthy there hr blockhead?

lol i love the charlie brown reference.

the answer is because the wealthy are the ones who wrote the tax code, and can afford lobbyists to add amendments favoring them ,and can afford CPAs that know how to exploit all the loopholes and deductions that a middle class guy can't.

if the wealthy aren't benefiting from the current taxcode, why do they oppose a lower flat rate(in which they get no deductions) ?
i think if taxcode was stripped, everyone would only have to pay maybe 19%.
that would greatly help the small business guy who now pays 34-39%.
trump and mit and gates and buffet and howard never actually pay the 34-39%

is howard going to create a job if he gets more tax breaks, or more likely a small business guy who after taxes now doesn't have much left?

[RiotGrip]

lol i love the charlie brown reference.

the answer is because the wealthy are the ones who wrote the tax code, and can afford lobbyists to add amendments favoring them ,and can afford CPAs that know how to exploit all the loopholes and deductions that a middle class guy can't.

if the wealthy aren't benefiting from the current taxcode, why do they oppose a lower flat rate(in which they get no deductions) ?
i think if taxcode was stripped, everyone would only have to pay maybe 19%.
that would greatly help the small business guy who now pays 34-39%.
trump and mit and gates and buffet and howard never actually pay the 34-39%

is howard going to create a job if he gets more tax breaks, or more likely a small business guy who after taxes now doesn't have much left?

The average top 0.1% of earners pay about 22% of their income in tax, some get away much lower. The top 1% overall pays about 23%. This 23% is because the one percenter with earned income of 400,000+ is likely paying around 30%+ in taxes, the investor or trustfunder just making money passively pays 15% on their capital gain. Many people at the top have high income and high capital gains so the average is what it is. This is why I believe in progressive taxation, but with less loopholes. I believe a man who makes 1 million a year typically works harder and is smarter than someone who earns 50 grand a year. However I don't think the difference in hard work and intelligence is 20X greater, therefore it is reasonable to say the wealthy person should pay a higher rate than the average income person.

[stripes]

lol i love the charlie brown reference.the answer is because the wealthy are the ones who wrote the tax code, and can afford lobbyists to add amendments favoring them ,and can afford CPAs that know how to exploit all the loopholes and deductions that a middle class guy can't.if the wealthy aren't benefiting from the current taxcode, why do they oppose a lower flat rate(in which they get no deductions) ?i think if taxcode was stripped, everyone would only have to pay maybe 19%.that would greatly help the small business guy who now pays 34-39%.trump and mit and gates and buffet and howard never actually pay the 34-39%is howard going to create a job if he gets more tax breaks, or more likely a small business guy who after taxes now doesn't have much left?

i'm one of those cpas you talk about for full disclosure. the population opposed to any tax changes & who influence & write the tax laws are the lobbyists & their interests are based on increased business, not paying more or less tax, thats a distant secondary concern. alot of social engineering is built into the tax code, we want more people owning houses, create a deduction, we want small business hiring a certain amount of unemployeds, create a credit, it goes on & on. the realtors & home builders are naturally opposed to reducing or eliminating mortg. deduction for example.the middle class has all access to get their full deductions with turbotax or a local tax guy for example. they're not missing anything because their tax situations are not as complicated as a well diversified rich guy who has more options as a qualified sophisticated investor. the minorities with 10 kids while working mcD's are certainly getting their earned income credit of thousands of dollars every january by the hr blockheads tax service. every rich guy i've ever known complains constantly about the tax code & their 200 page individual tax return, business return, qrtly payroll returns, property tax returns, multiple state returns, etc etc etc...they are more overwhelmed & hate the system more than any tax bracket. they want a simple one page return that they can understan & not feel ripped off. guys making >250k to 10mil dont have anything to do with writing any tax code...lobbyists that own washington do. the hard working wealthy business owners are not the fucking deamons no matter how much your golden boy tells you they are. its the lobbyists that pay his election bills along with the rest of the washington career crooks....so much for hopey changy...business as usual.

[racerx]

The average top 0.1% of earners pay about 22% of their income in tax, some get away much lower. The top 1% overall pays about 23%. This 23% is because the one percenter with earned income of 400,000+ is likely paying around 30%+ in taxes, the investor or trustfunder just making money passively pays 15% on their capital gain. Many people at the top have high income and high capital gains so the average is what it is. This is why I believe in progressive taxation, but with less loopholes. I believe a man who makes 1 million a year typically works harder and is smarter than someone who earns 50 grand a year. However I don't think the difference in hard work and intelligence is 20X greater, therefore it is reasonable to say the wealthy person should pay a higher rate than the average income person.

good post. i'm not even arguing they should pay a higher percent, but i think they should at least pay the same percent.
i feel the middle class and small business is bearing the brunt now.

as to adams point: if billionaires paid their fair share, millionaires like adam could pay less

[RiotGrip]

good post. i'm not even arguing they should pay a higher percent, but i think they should at least pay the same percent.
i feel the middle class and small business is bearing the brunt now.

as to adams point: if billionaires paid their fair share, millionaires like adam could pay less

Well to further my point I don't think a person who rakes in a billion a year is 1000x harder working and smarter than someone who makes a million. Income distribution will do this in a capitalist society though. A good site to illustrate this point is http://www.lcurve.org/

As someone who does very well for myself, I feel I've earned it and I work hard. But I pay twice the tax rate that Warren Buffet pays and I feel that is not fair. Unfortunately no one is going to single out billionaires, and the top tax rate will likely stay near the current level of income.

Edit: Be sure to zoom out if you visit the link I provided

[racerx]

i'm one of those cpas you talk about for full disclosure. the population opposed to any tax changes & who influence & write the tax laws are the lobbyists & their interests are based on increased business, not paying more or less tax, thats a distant secondary concern. alot of social engineering is built into the tax code, we want more people owning houses, create a deduction, we want small business hiring a certain amount of unemployeds, create a credit, it goes on & on. the realtors & home builders are naturally opposed to reducing or eliminating mortg. deduction for example.the middle class has all access to get their full deductions with turbotax or a local tax guy for example. they're not missing anything because their tax situations are not as complicated as a well diversified rich guy who has more options as a qualified sophisticated investor. the minorities with 10 kids while working mcD's are certainly getting their earned income credit of thousands of dollars every january by the hr blockheads tax service. every rich guy i've ever known complains constantly about the tax code & their 200 page individual tax return, business return, qrtly payroll returns, property tax returns, multiple state returns, etc etc etc...they are more overwhelmed & hate the system more than any tax bracket. they want a simple one page return that they can understan & not feel ripped off. guys making >250k to 10mil dont have anything to do with writing any tax code...lobbyists that own washington do. the hard working wealthy business owners are not the fucking deamons no matter how much your golden boy tells you they are. its the lobbyists that pay his election bills along with the rest of the washington career crooks....so much for hopey changy...business as usual.

you are clearly very intelligent on taxes, but most of your post addresses points i didn't make. who's my golden boy? what did i say that demonizes business? i'm pro business, that's why i want most of them to pay less tax percent. why not mock the mitt voters who were hoping for change?
every rich guy i know doesn't do their own taxes

[stripes]

i really hate that because we're becoming a nation of short term simpletons whose priorities have changed to a wheres my benefits & what have you done for me lately gubment that our space program, all the important r&d, & the promotion of top level cutting edge engineers of all types has become a rusted forgotten shell of its past. no national pride, no presidential promotion, no stated goals to strive for the future & excite future generations of scientists & engineers...we would rather cater to the lowest common denominator of folks who scream the loudest for the here & now of the social benefits state. we're tossing aside our greatest acheivers to become a shithead nation of tards & being passed by the likes of china, japan india etc that are expanding into that area of knowledge.Idiocracy the movie, watch it...funny as hell, we're it.

[stripes]

you are clearly very intelligent on taxes, but most of your post addresses points i didn't make. who's my golden boy? what did i say that demonizes business? i'm pro business, that's why i want most of them to pay less tax percent. why not mock the mitt voters who were hoping for change?every rich guy i know doesn't do their own taxes

ok sorry. mitts policies have nuttin to do with nuttin, obama & his merry band of spenders are the latest oval office winners. i was just ranting on the fair share shitheads that drive me fuken insane for their stooopidity.

[Bosch76]

like carolla said, what kind of topsy turvy bizarro pc world is it when the people paying for all the benefits are the ones demonized & the ones receiving the benefits are complaining that those people paying for all the shitty bloated gubment spending arent paying enough? the wealthy can pay more but demonizing them like the great divider has done over 4 yrs is small time political bullshit & doesnt help this country move forward in a hopey changy sort of way like promised.

Yes what kind of world is it that the people that get millions of dollars in tax breaks/ TARP funds / no interest loans bitch and moan about the people who found their sweet heart deals.

[racerx]

ok sorry. mitts policies have nuttin to do with nuttin, obama & his merry band of spenders are the latest oval office winners.

of course his policy's have to do with it, because i don't feel his polices are much different than the guy who have now.
why are only liberal democrats mocked but liberal republican get a pass? i feel that's the reason most of our policies suck.
if you are including the majority of the republican congress in obamas merry band of spenders, then i agree with you.
because they tried to spend even more money, only because the dems were immature and wouldn't let reps add amendments, can reps now pretend they were against the spending.
like a little kid tattletaling to his mom that his older siblings raided the cookie jar. he's not crying because they created a cookie deficit, he's crying simply because he didn't get any cookies

[stripes]

of course his policy's have to do with it, because i don't feel his polices are much different than the guy who have now.why are only liberal democrats mocked but liberal republican get a pass? i feel that's the reason most of our policies suck.if you are including the majority of the republican congress in obamas merry band of spenders, then i agree with you.because they tried to spend even more money, only because the dems were immature and wouldn't let reps add amendments, can reps now pretend they were against the spending. like a little kid tattletaling to his mom that his older siblings raided the cookie jar. he's not crying because they created a cookie deficit, he's crying simply because he didn't get any cookies

washington is broken, left, right, center all, nuttins changed except for the worse.... mitts not in charge, never was, nor is bush & we have a media golden boy in charge who has firmly entrenched himself in the liteweight argument that anyone making >250k is not paying their fair share thus creating class warfare & pitting this country against itself all under the election campaign motto of hopey changy & i'll bring everyone together...again dick fucking move....is the point of this thread.